Anthony Gurule

All right, what’s up guys? Welcome back to The Live Loud live podcast. My name is Dr. Antonio, your host and I am excited to chat with my good friend, Janelle Orsborn and you have to pronounce it Osborn because I heard you say it the other day on something online. I was like, I am saying it wrong.

Janelle Orsborn

Not Osborne.

Anthony Gurule

Orsborn

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah. That’s all right.

Anthony Gurule

All right, well, welcome. Thanks for joining me.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, am so glad to be here.

Anthony Gurule

We’re going to jump in because I think we’re going to chat for a while, we’ll get it in. But tell everyone who you are, and what you’re doing now?

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah.  Absolutely. So, I’ve been a body worker for about 13 years now. I was 17 when I graduated from Massage Therapy School and it was kind of on a whim that I decided to do this, which of course, it’s always perfect and divine. But it was like this coin toss between hair school and bodywork school. And then while I was in massage school, I ended up falling in love with just the healing art form of bodywork and where that’s been able to take me. So my journey with that has been learning so many different people’s bodies, but then we’re like, they’re storing trauma in the body, where they’re storing pain and how the pain is manifesting.

So that kind of set me on my path of not only learning more about trauma therapy and the way that the body literally holds trauma, but also my own healing journey of working with my mental health, my anxiety, and some depression. And so now I’m working kind of more the psychedelic space; actually that is where I’m really fascinated with as far as how psychedelics are designed to literally heal our physical bodies, as well as our minds and how those two things work so well together.

Anthony Gurule

Why do you think, I mean, the psychedelics, plant therapies, obviously, they’ve been around for a really long time, right? Why did it get so, I guess, like, not mainstream and now being so not mainstream, but in this bush. It’s because they’re doing a lot of great studies with it, you know, PTSD, veterans and different things like that. Now, obviously, it’s so that’s getting up there, we’re fairly mainstream, where they are able to give this to people.

Janelle Orsborn

Absolutely, which is kind of a loaded question because you always think like, why did these things that have been around for thousands of years, and jungles and tribes have been using these therapies, these plants to heal themselves, their families for generations. So I think use in the 50s, 60s, 70s, people not having a lot of awareness around like of the how.

Plant Therapy is really effective and you can really make a lot of money if people are healing and then getting better. There’s a great business model in Healthy People. And so I sometimes just wonder if this is a rabbit hole conversation but, you know, if you can make money on the pharmaceutical industries, so can you make money on plant medicines? So, I’ll really be curious to see as the research comes through with psychedelic assisted therapies, specifically how they’re going to regulate that as they have kind of with the cannabis industry. So psychedelics specifically are– I consider those in the realm of MDA, MDMA and Psilocybin, which is derived from the mushroom.

Anthony Gurule

Yeah. That’s a really good point. From my understanding the way that it’s being used now is not so much on a personal use, it’s more or is it always guided assistance?

Janelle Orsborn

Well, right now it’s all just done in research settings, legally. Obviously, there are people who are willing to go there and just administer and be facilitators of plant medicine work that’s not necessarily done legally through the regulation. But that’s how I’ve done a lot of my own healing; has just been through working with facilitators who are extremely knowledgeable, they just might not be FDA regulated and done in like a therapeutic setting in that regard.

Anthony Gurule

So, what interest you being younger and dealing with anxiety, depression and different things like that, when mostly what we hear is either medication or even just standard therapy? You know, we think a lot of times with those– therapies is a good start and then if that doesn’t work, then sometimes it goes further. But how did you first hear about this and what really piqued your interest in it?

Janelle Orsborn

Well, I know just in the reflection of you, you’re really a creator at heart and this is a form of healing as an artist. This is my artistry to be a healer because everyone is individual. And so, there are no two people that are going to be alike in their healing and that was for me too. So, when I was having these feelings of anxiety in my body, and these really dark like depressive thoughts, I was like, this can’t be, my body is not deficient in medication. That’s not how I was made, I wasn’t made to be deficient in medication. So there’s something dis-regulated in my physical system. And so I really just became my own experiment of like, I’m a creative person, we’re all creative, we’re all creators on some level and in some fashion. So why would I want to numb or minimize my gifts and my connection with God in the name of being healthy? It set me on a course of what mental health really is and why is my body dis-regulated?

Anthony Gurule

Were there things you tried before?

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, I was in Talk Therapy for years; three years of sitting once a week with a therapist. All modalities and tools that are helpful. But I just found that I wasn’t in my physical body, there was a disassociation between my physical experience and what was going on in my mind. And that will happen with a lot of really creative people, they’ll live so up in their head that they will not be able to drop it. And trauma also is a factor of not wanting to fully drop in the body; if there’s been physical trauma or if there’s just a really deep sense of fear state to be in the body. So the vagus nerve has really been what I’ve been passionate about studying; is how can we regulate the vagus nerve, which is the rest and digest kind of nerve. So when you stimulate this nerve your body’s able to actually fall into a rest state instead of being in like a fight or flight mode. You can actually just do that through breath work.

So that’s really where I started as well in therapy and then in breath work, I was having a tremendous breakthrough. I facilitate breath work journeys on retreats, and 1:1 session as well. You create an altered state of consciousness when you’re in that deep of a parasympathetic state, you drop into the delta brain wave state, and your brain is actually able to regulate itself again instead of having so many chemicals from being in fight or flight, that you just become so dis-regulated. I was literally disassociated from what I am even feeling because my mind is running away with itself. And so then I found plant medicine again kind of by accident, but it was recommended to me by several people before I finally said, yes.

Anthony Gurule

Is a big step, right? Like you said.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, I had actually worked with the Board of Health in Colorado when I was in my early 20s. And I was extremely opposed to a lot of the bills and the things the legislation that they were passing around cannabis and regulation of cannabis. I’m not really familiar with that plant specifically but it’s just the journey I’ve been on because I was so rigid and fixated in my mind thinking all drugs are bad and medicine that is regulated by the FDA is good. I think that there’s kind of a really big gap between the psychedelic space and western medicine. So that’s just been a journey in itself. For me is coming into the surrender of, wow, there’s probably a lot that we actually aren’t utilizing because it’s going to heal people, and it’s not going to keep people dependent on medication.

Anthony Gurule

Yeah. And I think what’s also hard to is– it’s funny, you may have heard this before because a pastor at a church who said it. Drugs work, if drugs didn’t work you got sold bad drugs, right? But I think what’s so hard now especially in our society is, I want to be better than yesterday. And when you take your medication, like they are pretty potent, and they do work some wonders, but it’s like that thing you were talking about was like systemically getting down to things, not just covering up, not just trying to balance certain levels because the chart said to do that.

 Janelle Orsborn

Right. If you’re trying to balance certain levels, there’s probably a band aid kind of situation that’s being put on a real underlying issue. For me, it was just a lot of dis-regulated stuff from childhood that I had never really been able to sit with and face. Then it set me on a spiritual journey of really kind of deconstructing my faith and being like, what do I actually believe in, what really is my purpose because I can’t just stay on this hamster wheel of just medicating my own anxiety and depression. It has to be medicine. That became my agreement with myself that I’ll only go where there’s medicine because medication for me just keeps me and keeps anyone that I will come in contact with as a healer kind of just on that pendulum as well or on that hamster wheel.

Anthony Gurule

And oftentimes creates dependency issues and all that other stuff, which again— I mean, I don’t know enough about all those medications and obviously certain medications prolong certain situations.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, there’s a really interesting– there’s been a few books that I’ve read that have really felt resonant in the way that I approach my own healing and the people that I work with now in their healing journeys. “The Body Keeps The Score”, I’m sure you’re familiar with that book and if not it’s worth reading if you feel like there’s maybe chronic pain in your body that isn’t from anything, or even like chronic anxiety, because chronic anxiety is really good indicator that there’s probably something in your life that’s out of alignment, because that was really my indicator. And I was like, why am I always so anxious, and it was really just that I wasn’t in alignment with a lot of things in my life, a relationship, the way in which I had structured my life where I almost was structuring a life that I couldn’t  afford. And I was working super hard to keep up with it. There was just a lot that wasn’t in alignment.

Anthony Gurule

It’s very common for a lot of people.

Janelle Orsborn

And so it got me on this spiritual journey of deconstructing my faith, really coming into like some honesty with myself. When I started down the pathway of psychedelics, it was unique, because the word psychedelic literally means to reveal the soul. And so when I read that and then really sat with that, I was like, whew, it can’t be an escape route if you’re really doing it. If you’re doing it you’re going straight to meet yourself. I remember the first time I ever worked with the psilocybin medicine, I was like, am I going to meet a demon like I don’t want any crazy stuff to happen. And my facilitator and good friend now she was like, well, if you have a demon inside they will be there whenever you meet me in order to be able to really– basically just love that part of myself. That’s my approach to healing is like where in yourself are you not– Because love is the ultimate medicine ever, period, end of story.

How can I as a healer then hold the space for myself to alchemize that thing in me that’s fear driven or that’s ego driven, that’s out of alignment? Can I love this part of myself to be able to alchemize it, to then be able to love it because love will ultimately heal it. That has probably been the biggest motto that I approach in any journey, or anything that I facilitate. And my body just completely shifted since working with psychedelics. I’ve lost weight that I was carrying, it was just emotional; almost like armor protection. I’m just more clear and been able to integrate them because the other side of this work is integration. I’ve been able to integrate, to structure a life that can actually support my healing and not just stay on the hamster wheel. And that’s been the most profound part of this work. It’s not for the faint hearted but it’s definitely for those who are just hungry for the truth, because we’re not meant to be in pain, we’re not meant to suffer. That could not be our birthright ever. And so for me the journey has been not only from a physical standpoint but it’s actually taken me very much into the spiritual aspect of healing.

Anthony Gurule

One thing I remember us talking about in the past in a framework of mindset and different things like that, one thing that I’ve heard is like anxiety is basically the separation between expectation and reality. We set certain expectations and then when we don’t meet it, we just get all frustrated and in which is tough because that can be misconstrued with goals and different things like that. But that’s something I know I’ve struggled with, is like I have this expectation of what something should be or where I should be, business standpoint, a father, a partner, and all those things and then when I don’t meet that it’s kind of upsetting or if it’s that anxiousness, right? So how do I have that kind of maybe the thought of expectations in reality, and not necessarily goal setting but just mindset wise, like being able to think about the future, strive for that greatness and the future and understanding when certain maybe milestones and things don’t match up with that.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, like I said, we’re all creators. And so we’re all creating our reality and we create the future, but we will miss whatever’s meant for us if we’re not in the present moment. And so the work that I’ve done in myself the last–, I’m 29 now, and I kind of started this work really in depth around 27. The last two years have been all in, giving myself over to the present moment, not to anything that I could be in the future. Because if I’m not present with myself and my work now, then the future that I’m going to create is going to literally just be more of the same; more separation between what the way I think it should be and the way it is. And it sounds simple, but it’s actually the most profound, potent thing in the world is the present moment. Like we had no idea what we’re going to talk about really when we sat down to do this podcast. If we are anywhere else but here, our medicine of these words, and this conversation isn’t even that– it doesn’t really mean anything if we’re already thinking about where we’re going to be after this. So it’s the slowing down, creating a lifestyle, cultivating a lifestyle where I can be present enough to then create a future reality that is true, I guess, because that’s really ultimately what we’re all after, is the truth. The truth can be rough, abrasive sometimes if there is a lot out of alignment.

Anthony Gurule

Yeah, that’s true. Obviously now everything we’ve been talking about it’s been more from an intervention of something happened, we’re trying to clear or work through some things– I don’t know if it’s even come to mind, which if it hasn’t, we can move forward on something else, but we can’t avoid trauma, trauma comes up, shit happens as they say. But from an early standpoint maybe younger kids and middle schoolers and high schoolers or maybe we don’t want to intervene with a psilocybin and things like that. Those types of medicines are like having discussions around how to deal with those things and work through those things or understanding.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, absolutely. There are tribes that are in different parts of Peru, as I’ve researched plant medicines where like 12 year olds will drink Ayahuasca with their dads and I’m like, oh, that’s one way to do it.

I feel for me, what would have been so helpful for me as a child was to be given– I was given tremendous space by my parents, and they absolutely have done an incredible job. I’m the oldest of six kids. But I think where I’ve noticed that parents can sometimes– they set the expectations for their children and rather than just allowing the child who comes full of purpose, fully tapped into their heart and who they are, and then they come into a reality that might not fully reflect or be they might not be given space to fully let that be expressed. And so for me, I noticed a big part of my journey was the expectations that I maybe were feeling more imposed on by my family, by the church that I went to, just the way that I was raised.

Anthony Gurule

Meaning like to do certain things.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, just like the level in which I was expected to show up from a really young age. Obviously, there was some trauma in my childhood as well but as far as– like you have young kids and so just kind of being like– There’s a really great song by Need To Breathe called Banks. It talks about being the banks to a river, where it’s like–, alright I’ve been operating in this world for longer than you but you’re actually the medicine for this next wave of consciousness to come through. Children are– I believe in. So it’s like holding these children in such a way that they can bring the medicine of their heart to the world. and then it’s just like giving them food and water and like enough place to sleep, and they will honestly figure it out. I think the biggest thing for me is just been deconstructing my own shoulds so that I can be the medicine that the world needs as well. So I can’t wait to have my own children someday so that they can come and show me the way instead of me thinking I could ever have anything to teach them.

Anthony Gurule

I did an episode with Dr. Bill Morgan. He’s one of our mentors and the president of Parker College of Chiropractic. He’s been a chiropractor for so many years. He treated Congress members, dude is amazing. And so we were talking about leadership and it came up his parenting and all that. He’s like the biggest thing I’ve learned about parenting it is the biggest reflection on myself. Of everything that comes out of me based on a certain situation is just like–  my oldest son is the one that buttheads most, but when something happens with the kid, I’m like, I’m literally like almost looking at myself as I’m doing it. It’s like, I’m not even mad at him.

Janelle Orsborn

No, it’s actually the part of you that maybe isn’t– again, where am I not fully loving myself that this is still triggering me on some level or I’m having this  perceived negative emotion around this like a child. And so I completely could see how that was.

Anthony Gurule

Which is always super curious to like where and how it gets built up through the generations wherever it is. I mean, we came from Catholic Hispanic on one side of my family, right? And that’s pretty rigid to the bone. Not that my parents were super worried. But I’m curious to within that is–, I think the biggest thing is just being adaptable, right? That’s the hardest part. Different kids need different things, different people need different things and understanding what that level is because some people work really well with more the banks are tighter. Whereas you open it up and then [CROSSTALK]

 

Janelle Orsborn

I was a kid that needed maybe just like a little bit of banks, and I was just a full river. I think I was given really tight, you know, this is how it needs to be done. Just for any parents listening, like if you can just really feel your children, not just listen to them and see but like feel them and just trust that their heart is fully tapped into. They know the way and that you might have more experience operating a car and like knowing how to buy food at a grocery store. The children really understand and they are our greatest teachers if we can feel them and give them the space to really let themselves be heard. I know that so many parents are probably like, yeah, my kids say like the most, they’ve no filter. It’s because they’re really just tapped in and they won’t hold back because the ego hasn’t been able to come online for children fully. Around age seven is when they hit that first seven year cycle hits. A child’s really able to first start to develop the ego, which is really just our fear manager, our trauma manager. A lot of plant medicine will dish this illusion, the ego for us to show us where our heart may be like was put on the backburner so that we could manage our fear.

Because really our heart is how–, for me I’m committed so much to living from a heart space of what wants to come through me into the world. It’s been a bit of a death to some of the things that I thought that I wanted and have still like formed a little bit of attachment to, I mean all the way to like relationships I thought I wanted or I want to live in this kind of a house or I want to– And so now I’m just so committed honestly to love and to healing myself and being medicine for so many people that I’m kind of having to even surrender. Again, I’m about to turn 30 into like, alright, well, that’s not how I thought where I was going to be at 30. But even surrendering to that too, it’s like I’m just continuing to stay present and listening truly to what my heart is saying, which is a cultivated practice. It was something that honestly I didn’t know how to do two years ago really without the work that I’ve done.

Anthony Gurule

That’s awesome. Back to kids, I think one of the hardest parts is obviously this is what we’re talking about as parents and kids at home and what not. I’m more so just kind of curious because we’re starting this journey of potentially homeschooling our kids, your homeschool journey, being one of six kids and everything else, did that make it too hard? Because you guys were living together and then you’re doing school together, which is good because it’s more time with family but sometimes it’s almost too much where getting out into different things.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, my parents, I was their oldest, so I was like the trial child and unlike all of my siblings. I’m lucky that I got to be the oldest in my family. However, there’s a lot of trial and error. And so for me, I think it was amazing to be homeschooled but it was the integration into the society because I always knew I was special. And I guess every kid has that, I knew that I was special. And it was almost like I didn’t have enough integration into being with other kids to see where I’m at because I just only hung out with other homeschool kids, and it was awesome, and we’re still great friends today. But I almost like dumbed myself down to go into society because I was just this really bright, vibrant kid but I would like go into society– and my parents did the best they could like signing up for sports and gymnastics but really I was like, man, it’s not resonating with me to do all these different activities. I want to interact with kids who are like me but not maybe just like all homeschool kids or like all just church kids. There needs to be diversity in it, I guess.

 

Anthony Gurule

Did that add to any of this stress, anxiety and stuff that you were feeling in that kind of early young adulthood?

 

Janelle Orsborn

Definitely.

Anthony Gurule

That’s heavy when you’re running your life one way, right?

 Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, it’s always.

Anthony Gurule

Like wait the world operates like this?

Janelle Orsborn

Now I would absolutely homeschool my kids. I wouldn’t have said that a few years ago but I see the value of  being able to cultivate so many things that you wouldn’t be able to in a public school system, but there’s some incredible like Montessori school systems. And just like more classically educated, I think that is the way that a child will learn best.

Anthony Gurule

Yeah. We’re obviously boarding our oldest. He’s only in kindergarten. But, I mean, homeschooling is honestly great. We wake up, we kick it early, and he’s done. He’s at least from kindergarten standards.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, I think it is cool too, and then the child can be on their own rhythm. Like every person has their own body rhythm, their own work ethic. Like my mom was just trying to be captain of a really busy ship, she had six of us. So she was like, structure and you need to be up at this time. But had I been given a little more space to be like, man, I actually work best at 11 o’clock at night. So that’s when I should do my school. When I was in 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th grade– you know, I’ve been an entrepreneur since I was 19. I’ve never really had a job. I do owe that to being homeschooled. I have my own kind of work ethic. I’m a self-starter and I never really had anyone other than my parents telling me like your assignments are due. Yeah. So I’m excited for you guys. And homeschooling is going to be amazing.

Anthony Gurule

We’re looking forward to it. So tell me about some of the other newer adventures and things that you’re getting into.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, so plant medicine can be like a kind of abrasive thing if you’re just new to it. It’s not been something that’s been introduced because I know that it really was for me. There’s a plant medicine that I’m really, really loving right now called Cacao. It’s literally just like the whole Cocoa bean, that roundup and it has the full fat in it but it can be a beautiful stimulant for the body rather than drinking coffee in the morning, which stimulates your brain and a lot of people say it just magnifies their anxiety. I’ve switched to drinking Cacao about two years ago and that’s been a credible shift for my body as well. There’s really high magnesium in Cacao; there is a lot of micronutrients and antioxidants that create just like a really beautiful heart opening experience, it’s a stimulant as well. It gives this really beautiful feeling to the body as like one would want when they drink coffee without the jitters of drinking caffeine. So I started a Cacao little label called Coco Love. And that’s my way to start sharing plant medicine with people because once you’ll try Cacao you’re more willing to have the conversation, maybe about a different plant medicine.

Anthony Gurule

Put the foot in the door.

Janelle Orsborn

Absolutely, yeah, we’ve been talking about children a lot and so I wrote a children’s book. Which will be out in the new year, still kind of in the development stages but preserving that inner child because so much trauma work and so much therapy, I’m like, man, if we could just like reach the five year old, which were all plant medicine journeys will take you to at one point or breathwork journeys, they’ll always take you back to that inner child at some point because that’s the truth. And so I wrote a children’s book that’s going to be out which is really exciting. And then have been facilitating retreats with some of my best friends, we all kind of created a platform called Pursuing Purpose that we’ve been able to do some healing retreats and take people on this adventure of healing themselves as well.

Anthony Gurule

That’s awesome, talk a little bit more about the retreat, how long are they?

Janelle Orsborn

The retreats are about four to seven days long and they are amazing. The thing for me was I started on my healing journey alone. And what I love that you guys are building here is a sense of community because I think you can heal without a lot of different things but if you’re feeling isolated and alone, it’s almost impossible to really feel, you know, seen, heard, love and encouraged; all the things we want to feel to operate at a high frequency.

Anthony Gurule

No doubt. I mean, isolation is the leading cause of a lot of diseases and the thing that everyone has been suffering from over the last few years.

Janelle Orsborn

Absolutely, which is probably another rabbit hole, but for me and for my team we want a holistic experience where someone can come experience breath work, cacao. We don’t work with psychedelics on our retreats yet, but just to be able to experience these holistic modalities and do it in a community where they’re held in a container and that’s just been profound. And so those are through pursuing purpose. Just following along on my Instagram, which is just adding in my first and last name, Janelle Orsborn, which is a great way to kind of keep up with the work that I do 1:1 and also in a group setting. I also facilitate breath work journeys here in Denver. So if people are interested in trying breath work, that’s a great way to get your foot in the door of altered states of consciousness, because it’s really your own breath. It’s just a hyper oxygenated state. So blood alkaline levels shift and all of a sudden you’re having this semi psychedelic experience without really even taking a substance. People that are hesitant to try, I completely understand. And that’s why I became a breathwork facilitator as well to be able to offer that medicine and experience

 

Anthony Gurule

Where do you hold those in Denver?

 

Janelle Orsborn

There’s a social club called Archipelago clubs. It’s fantastic. There’re a lot of different healers and teachers there. That’s been really fun. I’ve also studied– this is getting into a whole other conversation, but I’ve been studying the gene keys .The gene keys are basically based on the amino acids in your body and the way that they vibrate. They can be in a shadow state or a really high frequency state, and then how to elevate those amino acids to be in the highest vibrational state where disease really can’t exist.

Anthony Gurule

What were some of the interventions to make that shift be? Is that nutritional plants based?

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, you can actually supplement amino acids but it’s first of all knowing what your gene keys are. There are 11 of them. They’re based on astrology and the Chinese teaching. I’ve been really kind of diving into studying like, each of us have individual genetic makeup. So we’ll each have a different way that our body understands itself. My purpose in life is different than your purpose but we both have purpose. So it’s just being able to work with people as an individual has been my biggest passion because one medicine is not going to work for everyone  and my passion has just been making sure that anyone that comes in front of me feels seen by all of the modalities that I’ve been able to work on healing myself. My purpose in the gene keys is boundlessness. There are literally boundless expressions of love and healing. And I’ve kind of just been on the journey of discovering what works for me.

Anthony Gurule

Which I think is so good, right? Because it’s A: someone has been through the trenches, right? But B: it’s just for someone who’s been, I mean, for lack of a better term, just like stuck, and having someone that can help navigate that, all the different possibilities. Because it’s good as we said; talk therapy is great, certain medications run their purpose, body work serves their purpose, but someone who can do it all.

 

Janelle Orsborn

It’s even the energy that you set all of those modalities with, the voice notation goes down. I love to talk about things that are fun, having dance parties is fun. Like, that’s medicine and sometimes that will elevate my frequency into a completely different state then I’m like, Oh, It was just fun and laughter. So the community has been huge for that. So I love the work that you’re doing to kind of build our community here too because that’s profound.

Anthony Gurule 

Well, we’re going to wrap it. Thank you so much. I learned some cool things.  I’m not hitting the ice bath tonight with you guys, next time for sure. But I love following all your stuff. Thanks for sharing. Looking forward to seeing where everything goes with that.

Janelle Orsborn

Yeah, thanks for the work you’re doing too. And yeah, you can find me on Instagram. You can find me on Archipelago Clubs Denver, and just follow along and see kind of how you can come get involved with the work I’m doing, privately, 1:1 or in community as well.

 

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